Curse

Muk Utep · Dec 28, 2006, 12:56 AM // 00:56

One thing that Energy Storage is good for is a large chunk of burst damage. Once your energy is spent, it's useless, but it's nice for throwing out those 5-in-a-row Searing Flames, without casting other stuff in-between. That doesn't make it a great attribute though.

Alleji · Dec 28, 2006, 07:10 AM // 07:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by JYX

KROFL J00 S0 C00TE /W COOKIE
J00 N1NJ0R!?!??!

Talk less crap. You won't have to smooth it out later.

Very smooth on your part there, providing zero arguments yourself.

CagedinSanity · Dec 28, 2006, 07:19 AM // 07:19

I'm just going to use the same template as the thread starter used.

Divine Favor - At a higher level (like, past 7) it provides an excellent boost.
Soul Reaping - Amazing, it's even useful at just 5 points!
Expertise - A very noticeable difference, I like it. Not that many skills I'm too crazy about, but sitll worth dumping some points into.
Energy Storage - Now, if only I had this on other professions. OR if it did +4, haha. I'd say around medium-favored. It could have an extra perk or something with it.
Fast Casting - no noticeable difference, I kinda ignore this.
Critical Strikes - Not too fond of assassins, Not much experience in this skill. when I do make an Assassin I just do dagger and shadow arts.
Leadership - Worth it, in my opinion.
Spawning Power - Rt/N FOR TEH WIN!
Mysticisim - couple useful skills, would be good to have around 10 into it.
Strength - Complete crap. I can never tell how much it's adding to my attack.

NeHoMaR · Dec 28, 2006, 09:46 AM // 09:46

Thinking a little, my definitive best and worst are:

Best: Soul Reaping.
Worst: Spawning Power <- The inherent effect of this attribute is only useful in the 0,0000000001% of the all possible builds of this game. THIS crap attribute was the one that totally destroyed my idea of play a PvE ritualist when I realized he/she will be a spirit spammer forever; Don't make this mistake again ArenaNet, please don't!

Expertise is VERY good, but is not "the best" for me because is limited to attacks/touches... BTW, I use it only at exactly 5, 10 or 15. Make your own calculations and you will know why. Or see table here: http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Expertise

Note: I will not talk anymore about Enery Storage because I hate owls, specially white owls, OMG (excluding the Harry Potter one)

Moa Bird Cultist · Dec 28, 2006, 11:20 AM // 11:20

Ahem.

First, the good stuff.

1: Expertise. Why? If you cant see why, you need help...
2: Divine Favour. The reason we all don't have a quazillion deaths.
3: Soul Reaping. Stuff dies, you get energy to make stuff die, which gives you energy to make stuff die...
4: Critical Strikes. Daggers, Bows and Scythes. Critical hits. Lots of damage.
5: Mysticism. Frankly, something like energy storage SHOULD have been.
6: Fast Casting. Makes all the difference every time. Because it affects all spells, there are endless combos out there
7: Spawning Power. Limited in it's uses, but what it does, it does really well.
8: Leadership. Good, for the reasons stated by people before me. Energy Management in it's own right.

And now for the trash... (And this coming from a five times ele btw...)

9: Energy Storage. As an attribute, utter [email protected] It's been said a thousand times, having a larger pool of energy makes little to no difference in the long run. An Elementalist can quite easily get all the points they need to run a perfectly competent build, just from attunement runes and a staff, let alone the radiant insignia. (although, obviously, 1 minor e-storage rune, for the extra 1 energy might make a small difference. An ele who specs in one elementalist attribute can easily have 60+ energy without spending ANY points on energy storage, letting them invest in a decent bit of energy management, like the entire inspiration magic line of skills.

10: Strength. It's so bad, it even makes energy storage look good...

You know I'm right about energy storage, too

NeHoMaR · Dec 28, 2006, 01:54 PM // 13:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moa Bird Cultist

...although, obviously, 1 minor e-storage rune, for the extra 1 energy might make a small difference.

You mean 3 energy?

BTW, How much you think you can play with a lot of exhaustion without the "lot" of energy? Is not that the original idea anyway? the exhaustion? When you are exhausted you end with a relative "normal" energy pool; If you exhaust in the same way a mesmer, necro, monk you end with .... nothing.

Redfeather1975 · Dec 28, 2006, 02:01 PM // 14:01

Spawning power isn't all that bad.
If you are doing 1 of many different spirit's strength builds, it's essentially putting points into all your physical attack damage.
If you are using a build that uses a lot of energy it's putting points into energy usage reduction with Attuned Was Songkai.
It's a very versatile attribute, but I'm guessing that it's not favoured because the ritualist as a whole is very versatile, but isn't uber in anything and that's what seems to get people's attention.

Yanman.be · Dec 28, 2006, 02:53 PM // 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by CagedinSanity

Critical Strikes - Not too fond of assassins, Not much experience in this skill. when I do make an Assassin I just do dagger and shadow arts.

Assassins simply need critical strikes. Low energy pool and high energy costs means they must regen energy quite fast, or otherwise they're useless.

I always run 13+ CS. There's no reason not too, unless you really spread your attributes around for some crazy build.

"just do dagger and shadow arts" means you'll survive with enough shadow arts, wasting your energy on heals, leaving no energy for dagger attacks. It's better to kill them, so they can't damage you, than healing through their attacks so to speak.

Gusnana1412 · Dec 28, 2006, 02:53 PM // 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moa Bird Cultist

Ahem.

First, the good stuff.

1: Expertise. Why? If you cant see why, you need help...
2: Divine Favour. The reason we all don't have a quazillion deaths.
3: Soul Reaping. Stuff dies, you get energy to make stuff die, which gives you energy to make stuff die...
4: Critical Strikes. Daggers, Bows and Scythes. Critical hits. Lots of damage.
5: Mysticism. Frankly, something like energy storage SHOULD have been.
6: Fast Casting. Makes all the difference every time. Because it affects all spells, there are endless combos out there
7: Spawning Power. Limited in it's uses, but what it does, it does really well.
8: Leadership. Good, for the reasons stated by people before me. Energy Management in it's own right.

And now for the trash... (And this coming from a five times ele btw...)

9: Energy Storage. As an attribute, utter [email protected] It's been said a thousand times, having a larger pool of energy makes little to no difference in the long run. An Elementalist can quite easily get all the points they need to run a perfectly competent build, just from attunement runes and a staff, let alone the radiant insignia. (although, obviously, 1 minor e-storage rune, for the extra 1 energy might make a small difference. An ele who specs in one elementalist attribute can easily have 60+ energy without spending ANY points on energy storage, letting them invest in a decent bit of energy management, like the entire inspiration magic line of skills.

10: Strength. It's so bad, it even makes energy storage look good...

You know I'm right about energy storage, too

Second vote for this, very well review~

frojack · Dec 28, 2006, 03:07 PM // 15:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeHoMaR

Thinking a little, my definitive best and worst are:

Best: Soul Reaping.
Worst: Spawning Power <- The inherent effect of this attribute is only useful in the 0,0000000001% of the all possible builds of this game. THIS crap attribute was the one that totally destroyed my idea of play a PvE ritualist when I realized he/she will be a spirit spammer forever; Don't make this mistake again ArenaNet, please don't!

Expertise is VERY good, but is not "the best" for me because is limited to attacks/touches... BTW, I use it only at exactly 5, 10 or 15. Make your own calculations and you will know why. Or see table here: http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Expertise

Note: I will not talk anymore about Enery Storage because I hate owls, specially white owls, OMG (excluding the Harry Potter one)

Wow. Someone hates Spawning as much as I do...

Spawning is a private joke amongst the designers. I use my Ritualist. I use a Ritualist a LOT. 5% of the time I'll actually need spawning for say, Shelter, Union, Displacement and/or Wanderlust. A grand total of 4 spirits. Awesome...

What makes this all the worse is the fact that the hp gain is only 60%. Is that it? When a team is getting pounded on something serious, do people really think 60% more Shelter-time actually makes any real difference? Delusion...

Minions you say? In the most effective Ritualist Minion builds, their actual job is to die and blow the place up. Hench the name 'Minion Bomber'. Spawning aides this how?

Top of the list...? Expertise.

The fact that this attribute makes it easier for Rangers than it is for Ritualists to use Spirits is complete and utter garbage...

The worst is obvious. Just above that would be Strength (skills? Stupid idea. I think somebody tip-ex-ed out the bit saying "...all successful attacks.." and added "...skills..." in the description.
Then theres the joke that is Energy Storage... Thanks for the huge gas-tank. Anyone need to get to the end of the road? As that's as far as I can go...

Quote:

Originally Posted by JYX

Semantics...

Eh? So where did you go to school? Semantics have nothing to do with this in regards to the topic at hand. JR (and the entire thread for that matter) and you are talking about completely different subjects.

A. JR (and the world) = The primary attribute itself.

B. you (and nobody) = The skills within the attribute.

JYX · Dec 28, 2006, 03:21 PM // 15:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by frojack

Eh? So where did you go to school? Semantics have nothing to do with this in regards to the topic at hand. JR (and the entire thread for that matter) and you are talking about completely different subjects.

A. JR (and the world) = The primary attribute itself.

B. you (and nobody) = The skills within the attribute.

Semantics have everything to do with it. JR says Energy Storage is good because the skills carry it, the line itself is still crap. I say the line has to be considered with the skills in it. Point being the conclusions drawn are exactly the same whether you decide the skills to be part of a attribute line or not.

...and all this was in the context of Alleji telling people to take points from Energy Storage. If you want to discuss the pros and cons of the inherent effects without considering skills, go right ahead. Just don't make any conclusions about where to spec without considering the skills.

It'd be helpful if you'd read the entire section, get some context. cba? Too bad, don't pick up convos that are over and have nothing to do with you.

Deleet · Dec 28, 2006, 05:42 PM // 17:42

Bleh...

You should rate them after:

1) How they work with skills from primary profession (not the skills themselves)
2) How they work with skills from other professions (comboing)

And therefore..

1. Expertise, just excellent.
2. Fast Casting, also execellent.
3. Soul Reaping, good.
4. Critical Strikes, good.
5. Leadership, medium.
6. Divine, medium
7. Mysticism, medium
8. Spawning, medium
9. E storage, bad.
10. strength, worthless.

frojack · Dec 28, 2006, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by JYX

Semantics have everything to do with it. JR says Energy Storage is good because the skills carry it, the line itself is still crap. I say the line has to be considered with the skills in it. Point being the conclusions drawn are exactly the same whether you decide the skills to be part of a attribute line or not.

...and all this was in the context of Alleji telling people to take points from Energy Storage. If you want to discuss the pros and cons of the inherent effects without considering skills, go right ahead. Just don't make any conclusions about where to spec without considering the skills.

It'd be helpful if you'd read the entire section, get some context. cba? Too bad, don't pick up convos that are over and have nothing to do with you.

Er... No. What your talking about is 'changing' the topic. Not answering the question. JR's comment stands perfectly well, and is in the context of the original question drafted. Yours however is something... Else.
Since this is obviously escaping you, if you we're to answer an exam question in this manner, you'd get near about zero. Or if you we're in court, you would be repeatedly asked to actually answer the question and would finally be found in contempt.

On that note, don't ever go to court...

Anyways', Critical Strikes is indeed fantastic, however I've never been fond of leaving things to chance. Regardless of how good the odds are...

Deleet · Dec 28, 2006, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by You just got tomahawked

well lets see I mite seem nooby but call me old school. Dolyak+Defy+endure=close to a freakin 55

Actually, that's the most far away from 55'ing you can get.

You have 1000ish hp and a 55'er has, ... 55..

You have tons of armor and a 55'er has 5 or 10?

Hand of Ruin · Dec 28, 2006, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanman.be

Assassins simply need critical strikes. Low energy pool and high energy costs means they must regen energy quite fast, or otherwise they're useless.

I always run 13+ CS. There's no reason not too, unless you really spread your attributes around for some crazy build.

"just do dagger and shadow arts" means you'll survive with enough shadow arts, wasting your energy on heals, leaving no energy for dagger attacks. It's better to kill them, so they can't damage you, than healing through their attacks so to speak.

Not to mention CS has some awesome skills

qazwersder · Dec 28, 2006, 08:39 PM // 20:39

An example of energy storage....

Possibly one of the most energy heavy builds regularily run, the dual attunement echo nuker.

My standard build (from before factions and Nightfall)
Ele Attunement, Fire Attunement, Rodgorts innovocation, Immolate, Fireball, Arcane Echo, Meteor Shower, Rez Sig.

Running only 1 in Energy Storage (As I couldnt remove the rune), I have 53 Energy.

Even without precasting the attunements, you do not run out of energy until after Elemental Attunement has ran out. Casting order is Ele attune, Fire Attune, echo, MS, MS, Rods, Fireball, Immolate. You get a 20 energy return on MS and Rodgorts and a 9 energy return on Fireball and Immolate.

The only reason to put any points into energy storage is for the duration of elemental attunement (Needs 9 points to last 45 seconds, the recharge of itself), which used to be a no attribute spell anyway. As for exhaustion, by the time MS has recharged, the exhaustion has gone.

So energy storage, kinda pointless if you ask me.

JYX · Dec 28, 2006, 11:16 PM // 23:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by frojack

Er... No. What your talking about is 'changing' the topic. Not answering the question. JR's comment stands perfectly well, and is in the context of the original question drafted. Yours however is something... Else.
Since this is obviously escaping you, if you we're to answer an exam question in this manner, you'd get near about zero. Or if you we're in court, you would be repeatedly asked to actually answer the question and would finally be found in contempt.

On that note, don't ever go to court...

Anyways', Critical Strikes is indeed fantastic, however I've never been fond of leaving things to chance. Regardless of how good the odds are...

Wrong bit of context. Try again.

I have no idea why you're getting so passionate about this. To be honest, if you want to spec nothing in Energy Storage on your util casters, I really couldn't care less. Which is what it really comes down to. If you feel the need to sling more turds, PM me. Your comments are soiling this thread.

NeHoMaR · Dec 29, 2006, 08:31 AM // 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by qazwersder

...As for exhaustion, by the time MS has recharged, the exhaustion has gone.

So, I will never see Obsidian Flame in your skill bar?

BTW, I was testing like 30 minutes with 16 Strength vs 0 Strength in the barrels in B.Temple. There ARE differences in damage specially when you have a 15^50 20/20 weapon, but ... not a BIG difference really. Conclusion? well, you don't need it too high, just as low as you need for the related skills and/or shield. But there ARE more damage, little but existing, you can use Strength at least you hopelessly need spread your attributes somewhere.

Fire_Emblem_FTW · Dec 29, 2006, 09:45 AM // 09:45

Most of the Primary Attributes are very good without skills in their line, except for Strength. It doesn't do very much IMO. However it does have some very good skills. Mysticism I think is useful, because it keeps energy up and gives a tiny hp boost. Expertise saves a boatload of energy. Divine Favor, extra healing is always a plus. Energy Storage, good for those high-cost Ele skills. Fast Casting, makes it hard for humans to interupt you. Leadership helps make up for 2 energy regen for Paragon. Critical Strikes is excelent for +damage and +energy. Spawning Power... never played a Ritualist so I wouldn't really know. Soul Reaping is amazing at keeping energy up as long as things are dieing.

gasmaskman · Dec 29, 2006, 10:05 AM // 10:05

1. Soul Reaping - Reaper's Mark, Signet of Lost Souls, amazing energy management when something dies. What is better?
2. Expertise - Some of the skills are bad, some are great, but overall, it makes amazing use of skills.
3. Divine Favor - Amazing skills, increase on healing, makes a monk primary.
4. Mysticism - This definiately gets 4. All the avatars are in it, helps with energy management, etc.
5. Leadership - Has awesome skills, makes 2 pips of energy not suck, and helps the party overall.
6. Critical Strikes - Assassins really need this to spam their attacks. It's great e-management, and it increases damage, but you have to stick with melee to use it.
7. Energy Storage - What's not to love about some extra energy? It definitely helps with almost anything. Ether Prodigy? MAJOR PLUS
8. Fast Casting - while not necessarily the best attribute, on a mesmer it definitely helps, especially when shortening diversion's casting time.
9. Spawning Power - At first I didn't think I should put it this low, but I think it's where it belongs. It can extend the lives of minions, and it definitely helps on spirits that lose health [wanderlust, shelter, union, earthbind, etc.] but other than that it's not useful anywhere else.
10. Strengh. Just, no. Without the skills used [bull's strike, sprint], it's just not good.